Did you know shingles get layered like fish scales?

Pressure washing shingles always makes me nervous too - seems like it does more harm than good most times. About those eco underlayments, do they actually hold up in heavy rain or hail? I’ve seen some tear pretty quick, but maybe the newer ones are better. Anyone actually had one last more than a couple seasons?

Pressure washing shingles just feels risky, right? I’ve seen more granules come off than dirt sometimes. As for those eco underlayments, I get where you’re coming from - some of the early ones really didn’t hold up, especially in places with wild weather swings. I tried a recycled-fiber underlayment on my shed roof a few years back (I’m in the Midwest, so we get our share of hail and heavy rain), and honestly, it surprised me. No leaks yet, and it’s been through two winters and a couple nasty storms.

That said, I’ve heard mixed things from neighbors - one guy had his tear up after a single hailstorm, but he said it was a thinner brand. Maybe the newer or thicker versions are better? It seems like there’s a lot of variation depending on the specific product and how careful you are during install. Anyone else notice that some brands just seem to handle the elements better? I’m still cautiously optimistic about them, but I totally get being skeptical if you’ve seen them fail before.

Pressure washing shingles always makes me nervous too. I’ve seen more granules in the gutters after someone tried it than I’d like to admit. As for those eco underlayments, I’ve managed a few properties where we tried them out - some held up, some didn’t. The thicker ones seem to last longer, but install really matters. If you don’t get the overlap right, even the best product won’t save you from Midwest weather. It’s a bit of a gamble, honestly.

- Definitely agree on the pressure washing - every time I’ve seen it done, there’s a ton of granule loss. That’s basically speeding up the aging process for your shingles, especially if they’re already a few years old.

- On the underlayment, I’ve noticed install quality is almost more important than which product you pick. Saw one crew overlap the seams by barely an inch, and water got in during the first big rain. Another job, same material but with a solid 6-inch overlap and careful taping, held up through two nasty winters.

- The “eco” options are interesting, but I’ve found they can be hit or miss. Some of those recycled-fiber types seemed to wick moisture if there was any gap in coverage. The heavier synthetic ones do better, but they’re not cheap and can be tricky to lay flat on steeper roofs.

- Midwest weather is brutal - freeze/thaw cycles just find every tiny mistake. Even the best products can’t totally compensate for sloppy work or shortcuts.

- One thing I’d add: manufacturer warranties often get voided if installation isn’t by the book. Had a property where the owner tried to save money with a handyman, and when there was a leak, the shingle company wouldn’t cover it because the underlayment wasn’t installed to spec.

- For anyone dealing with older roofs, sometimes adding another layer of underlayment during a re-roof can help, but only if local codes allow it. Otherwise, you risk trapping moisture between layers.

- Never had luck with “quick fix” sprays or coatings for leaks either - they might buy you a season, but usually just make things messier down the line.

- And yeah, shingles really do go on like fish scales. It’s kind of wild how something so basic works so well... until someone rushes it or tries to cut corners.

Even the best products can’t totally compensate for sloppy work or shortcuts.

That’s been my experience too. I tried to “save time” once by using the peel-and-stick underlayment with minimal overlap. Regretted it after the first spring thaw - water found a way in. Lesson learned, don’t skimp on overlap or details.

Lesson learned, don’t skimp on overlap or details.

Right there with you. I’ve seen folks try to “eyeball” the overlap, thinking a couple inches is fine... then the first sideways rain comes and suddenly it’s a slip-n-slide in the attic. My rule: treat every shingle like it’s guarding the crown jewels. If you rush the details, water will always find that one lazy shortcut. It’s like Murphy’s Law, but soggier.

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If you rush the details, water will always find that one lazy shortcut.

Fish scales is a good way to put it, but I’ve seen more than a few roofs where it looked more like someone was stacking pancakes - just flat and hoping for the best. I get what you’re saying about shortcuts. I’ve had a couple of “budget” jobs done on some rentals, and every time, it’s the little things that come back to bite. One place, the crew nailed too high on half the shingles. Looked fine from the street, but after the first big rain, I was up there with a flashlight and a bucket, just like you said.

I’m curious - does anyone actually check the nail placement after a job, or is that just me being paranoid? I’ve had contractors roll their eyes when I ask about it, but then again, I’m the one who gets the call when water’s dripping through the ceiling at 2am. Maybe I’m too skeptical, but I’d rather be picky than pay for drywall repairs later.

And about the stagger - why is it that folks think lining up tabs looks better? I had a guy tell me once it was “more professional.” Sure, until you get those zipper leaks. Is there some trick to spotting a bad stagger from the ground, or do you just have to wait for the leaks to show up?

I’m in the Midwest, so ice dams are a real headache. Even with ice & water shield, if the shingles aren’t layered right, you’re still in trouble. Anyone else notice that some of these newer synthetic underlayments seem slicker? I wonder if that makes it easier for water to sneak in if there’s a mistake up top.

Not saying every job needs to be perfect, but I’d settle for “done right” over “done fast” any day. Maybe I’m just getting grumpy with age...

- I always check nail placement after a job, too. Not sure if it’s paranoia or just being thorough, but I’ve seen leaks from nails too high or too few.
- Lined-up tabs drive me nuts. From the ground, I look for repeating patterns - if I can spot a “zipper” line, that’s usually a red flag.
- Ice dams are brutal here (Chicago area). Even with ice & water shield, if the first row isn’t right, water finds a way.
- Those synthetic underlayments do seem slicker. Wondering if that’s why I noticed more shingle slippage on my neighbor’s roof last winter...
- Anyone ever had luck getting a contractor to fix bad nail lines after the fact? Or is it always a fight?

Nail placement is one of those things that gets overlooked way too often, in my experience. I’ve seen so many “new” roofs where the nails are either riding high or just barely catching the shingle, and then you get a call a couple years later about leaks or shingles sliding. Sometimes I wonder if it’s just rushed crews or if some folks genuinely don’t know how much it matters. I get why you double-check after a job - honestly, I wish more people did.

The lined-up tabs thing drives me up the wall too. Once you see that zipper pattern, you can’t unsee it. It’s like a giant arrow pointing at shoddy work. I’ve had homeowners ask if it’s just cosmetic, but from what I’ve seen, those patterns can actually make it easier for wind to lift shingles and for water to sneak in. Not just an eyesore.

Ice dams are a nightmare here in Minnesota too. Even with all the right underlayment, if that first row isn’t sealed tight or there’s a gap, water will find its way in eventually. I’ve crawled through enough attics with stained insulation to know that for sure. Sometimes it’s not even the roof - bad ventilation and insulation play into it too, but that’s a whole other can of worms.

On synthetic underlayments: I’ve noticed they’re slicker as well. Saw a couple jobs last winter where shingles seemed to shift more than usual after a heavy storm. Not sure if it’s just the material or maybe installers not nailing enough? Either way, something’s changed compared to the old felt days.

Getting contractors to come back for bad nail lines... mixed bag, honestly. Some will own up and fix it, especially if you catch it early and have photos. Others drag their feet or blame “settling” or “normal movement” - which is pretty frustrating when you know what you’re looking at. Having clear documentation helps, but sometimes it feels like pulling teeth.

Curious if anyone’s seen manufacturers actually deny warranty claims over nail placement? I’ve heard stories but haven’t run into it myself yet...

Nail placement really does make or break a roof’s longevity. I’ve seen manufacturers deny claims for improper nailing, especially if the nails are too high or not enough per shingle. They’ll point right to the install instructions and say warranty’s voided - happens more with wind damage claims than leaks, in my experience. The synthetic underlayments are slicker, no doubt. I’ve had crews complain about footing and shingles shifting before they’re nailed down. It’s not just nostalgia for felt - there’s an actual difference in how the layers “lock” together, especially on steeper pitches.

- Nail placement is one of those things folks overlook until it bites them later. I’ve seen a few roofs where the nails were just a tad too high - looked fine at first, but then a big wind comes through and suddenly you’re picking shingles out of your yard.

- The synthetic underlayment debate cracks me up. It’s lighter and goes down faster, but yeah, it’s slicker than snot on a doorknob. I’ve watched more than one crew member do the “synthetic shuffle” trying to keep their footing on a steep pitch.

- I get why some old-timers swear by felt. There’s something about how it grabs the shingle and keeps it from sliding around before you nail it. On steeper roofs, that little bit of friction can make all the difference.

- Warranty claims are no joke either. Had a homeowner lose out because the installer skipped a couple nails per shingle row. Manufacturer just shrugged and pointed to the manual... tough lesson.

- Not saying synthetic is bad - it’s just different. If you’re used to felt, there’s definitely an adjustment period.

- Anyone else notice how much more “slippery” things get when you’re working in humid weather? Or maybe that’s just my luck...

Nail placement really is the silent killer of a good roof job. Folks think an inch here or there won’t matter, but it’s wild how fast a shingle can take flight if you miss the sweet spot. I’m with you on synthetic underlayment - fast and light, but man, you better have your footing dialed in, especially on a humid day. I still keep a roll of felt in the truck for those steep jobs where you need that extra grip. Warranty headaches are real too... manufacturers don’t budge if you skip steps. Learned that one the hard way years back.

That’s the truth about nail placement - my neighbor’s roof lost a whole row of shingles after a windy night, and turns out the nails were just a bit too high. I’ve always stuck with felt for the steeper pitches too. Synthetic’s nice, but I don’t trust my boots on it when it’s muggy. Warranty stuff is no joke... I had to redo a section once because I skipped a step thinking it wouldn’t matter. Never again.

Nail placement’s one of those things that seems minor until you see what happens when it’s off by even half an inch. I’ve seen whole sections peel up after a storm just because the nails missed the strip. Sometimes folks think more nails will help, but if they’re not in the right spot, it doesn’t matter. I had a job last fall - brand new shingles, but the previous installer put the nails too high on a steep pitch. First big wind, and we were back out there patching.

I get what you mean about felt versus synthetic. I’ve tried both, and honestly, I still lean toward felt on anything over a 7/12 pitch. Synthetic’s lighter and goes down fast, but when it’s humid or you get that morning dew, it can get slick as ice. I’ve seen guys slide right off. Not worth it for me, especially when you’re up there for hours.

Warranties are another headache. Manufacturers are strict about their specs - if you miss a step or use the wrong underlayment, they’ll void it in a heartbeat. I once had to redo an entire valley because we used staples instead of cap nails on the synthetic underlayment. Didn’t think it’d matter at the time... learned my lesson quick.

Funny thing about shingles being like fish scales - makes sense when you look at how they overlap and shed water. But if even one row isn’t nailed right or lines up wrong, water finds its way in every time. It’s always those little details that come back to bite you later.

Not sure if anyone else has noticed, but some of these newer architectural shingles seem less forgiving than the old three-tabs when it comes to placement. You miss the nail line by a bit and they don’t seal as well. Maybe that’s just me being picky, but I’d rather take my time than have callbacks all season.

Anyway... every roof’s got its quirks, but skipping steps never pays off in the long run.

- Gotta say, I’m not totally sold on felt over synthetic for steep pitches.
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“Synthetic’s lighter and goes down fast, but when it’s humid or you get that morning dew, it can get slick as ice. I’ve seen guys slide right off.”

Fish scales is right - my roof looked like a sad, soggy trout after last spring’s storm. I’ll say this about synthetic: it’s definitely lighter, but I swear the first time I tried walking on it in the morning dew, I felt like I was auditioning for a slapstick comedy. Nearly ended up in my neighbor’s yard. But then again, the old felt stuff on my shed roof turned into mush after one wet season and tore up like wet tissue under my boots.

Honestly, I think half the battle is just what you’re used to. My cousin swears by felt, but he also still uses a flip phone, so take that for what it’s worth. The textured synthetics do seem to help, but I’ve had a couple brands that were basically just fancy tarps. Maybe it’s a “try it and see” kind of deal.

And nail placement - yeah, specs are there for a reason, but I’ve missed the line by a mile and those shingles are still hanging on. Maybe luck, maybe overkill on nails... who knows. Warranties? Don’t get me started. I’d have better luck getting my dog to pay out.

I get the frustration with synthetic underlayment being slick, but honestly, I’ll take that over felt any day after seeing how fast felt breaks down in heavy rain. If you’re worried about footing, there are grippier synthetics out there - just gotta be picky. As for nail placement, missing the line might work for a while, but after a big windstorm, that’s usually when I see shingles start to lift. Specs aren’t just for show... learned that the hard way patching up after last year’s hail.

I get what you’re saying about felt breaking down, but I actually went with it last year because it was way cheaper and I was already stretching my budget.

“I’ll take that over felt any day after seeing how fast felt breaks down in heavy rain.”

Felt’s kind of the old faithful, isn’t it? I totally get where you’re coming from on budget - those synthetic rolls can make your wallet cry, especially if you’re just trying to keep the rain out until you can finish things up. I’ve used felt on a couple roofs (including my own little cabin project), and as long as you don’t leave it exposed for too long, it’s usually fine. Heavy rain is definitely its kryptonite, though. Had one stretch where a freak storm rolled through before I could get the shingles down, and there were a few soggy patches, but nothing catastrophic.

Funny enough, I actually found the same thing with synthetics being slippery. The first time I tried one of those “super grippy” brands, I nearly did an accidental Olympic luge off my porch roof... Not exactly confidence inspiring when you’re up there alone. Felt just has that grippy texture that makes you feel a little less like you’re tempting fate.

Long-term, I do wonder about the pricier synthetics too. They always talk about UV resistance and how they’ll last weeks uncovered, but most folks I know try to get shingles on ASAP anyway. Unless you’re running into weather delays or have a massive roof, is it really worth the extra cost? Maybe for pros doing big jobs or in super wet climates.

For me, felt’s been fine as long as I didn’t push my luck with exposure. And honestly, if you’re careful about overlaps and nailing, it does the job. If my next project’s got a steeper pitch or more complicated layout, maybe I’ll give synthetic another shot... but only if I invest in some better shoes first.

Curious if anyone’s had felt actually fail on them mid-project? Or maybe everyone’s just gotten lucky so far.